Design a Logo, Win $250 & Serve God

I agree with Michael man. I’m a Christian and love helping churches, but this is not cool. You either need to pay someone the $250 for a logo or ask for someone to do a logo for free. You wouldn’t go ask a bunch of coffee shops to make you coffee and the winning taste will get paid would you?

people write songs for free all the time and enter them into contests. people create art pieces (painting, sculpting, etc…) all the time for free and enter them into contests.
if you don’t want to participate don’t.
my bet is that someone designs a nice logo and will be compensated for it.

Amen David, well said! I appreciate Zak being ALL about furthering God’s kingdom. Some of us are kind of for furthering His kingdom as long as it doesn’t infringe on our own. I fall into the same category as you do in that I use my talent that God has given me for profit, but also for filling a need whenever possible. He blesses that every time!

It cracks me up to see people complain about things like this. I think they should stop investing in sites like http://www.no-spec.com since they seem to be the poster children of http://www.nolife.com. Come on guys, he’s starting a Church in a new area and trying to get some involvment in it. He’s also going to pay for the design he uses, so let it go. I got your back, Zak!

I don’t want to presume that someone who does something they are gifted in (and usually gets paid to do) for free is doing something that lacks integrity.

I don’t want to presume that someone who feels they need something so bad but just can’t scrape up the right money to hire the right person and so turns to ask for someone to be kind enough to donate their talent and time is doing something that lacks integrity.

But friends, there is something seriously wrong with a community leader, pastor, friend, “creative leader” that pridefully announces a “logo contest” that begs of the art community to submit their time, and talent not for the glory of God, but indeed for their own commercial gain, and instead of humbly requesting help, the prideful leader demands that all talented people submit their best work with the hopes that they be chosen for a prize that falls all too short of acceptable.

The question herein lies: not that the work asked for was not needed, or that it could not be afforded, nor is it in question that the artists are willing to help. The question here is the matter of the competition– in that competitions are invariably designed to have a) Winner and b) Loser(s). Therefore if I as an artist offer my work to God through CaddilacZak and find myself NOT in category a) but in category b) what is to become of my offering? FORGETTING about the $250, that was last week’s phone bill. My offering becomes either the object of thievery (to be ripped off by amateurs salivating at the host of vectors before them) or to be cast aside in the limitless pile of losers and thrown away, making my “gift to the ministry” = trash.

I’m sorry caddilac zak, your uninformed query has got the entire christian design community up in arms.

FYI a logo is worth starting at 3 – 4 times what you are offering, and to equate its value to something of $250 is belittling the gift, and belittling the giver, and belittling your commercial, ministerial, and communal efforts as a whole.

This contest is silly, and it demonstrates a fundamental lack of understand or appreciation of the creative process.

I guess if you want to crowdsource a logo for $250 with a deadline of less than two weeks, then more power to you. You’ll NEVER get something that’s good, cheap AND fast, it’s always two out of the three. Either it’ll be Good + Fast = expensive, Good + Cheap = slow, or Fast + Cheap = inferior. I would like to think that with a church plant you’d put a little more effort into how you’re presenting yourself visually, because that’s a portion of how your community will perceive you. You’ll be in a situation of garbage in = garbage out.

As a designer, I can say without equivocation that spec work does indeed cheapen our industry and creates an atmosphere where clients have unrealistic expectations.

And please don’t stand behind the guise of “it’s for the kingdom” to justify damaging our industry. The bible is pretty clear that we’re to pay the workman his due. I would challenge you to research what it takes to design a creative and effective logo, find a designer you can partner with, and pay them a respectable wage. $250 is laughable for a logo, and you should be ashamed.

I don’t see anywhere in the post where he states you must be a professional designer to enter this contest. So if you’re insulted by the contest concept, don’t participate. Let it be a chance for a new artist to get their name out there. Let it be fun, let it be a lighthearted competition, the way it was intended. Don’t make it into something it’s not.

Whatever happened to the old, “if you can’t say something nice…” I think some people are just looking for a reason to be offended.

Seems like this is like any other contest. You choose to invest some time, and maybe it will pay off, maybe it won’t. I immediately passed this contest on to my brother who is trying to do more graphic design. He doesn’t do art for a full-time job, but he saw this as a chance to do something new and maybe win some money.

I think if I offered $10 for the background for my twitter page, I would get a few responses. Would they be professional quality? Probably not. They would, however, be of better quality than anything I can create myself.

My church recently held a photography contest where the winner’s art was put around the coffee station, and he or her won a giftcard.

My old job offered a $100 giftcard to the winner of a t-shirt design contest that employees voted on.

I didn’t enter either of these, but I know people who did and had fun doing it.

You’ve got to be kidding me! You prideful, arrogant ASSES!

If you’ve left a disparaging comment about Zak, this is what I have to say to you:

1) Shame on you for using a public medium to backbite a brother in Christ. Repentance is in order.

2) Do you realize how snobbish you sound? If your work is worth more than $250, that’s fine, but don’t blast a church planter who’s doing his best to save pennies and be smart with his money. If you don’t want to participate in the contest, move along and let some design newbies take a crack at it.

3) You obviously don’t know Zak very well, which makes your hateful comments even more ignorant, asinine, and immature.

4) The reason spec work exists is because the graphic design industry is broken. You have a handful of super-snob designers mixed in with a boatload of wanna-be’s, all claiming to be the cat’s meow.

5) How is this ANY different from any other artist contest? And, on top of that, how is this different from 99designs.com or designoutpost.com? Those are frequented by thousands of designers, happy to do spec work because they’re just getting started and need to build a portfolio and would like the possibility of getting paid to do it.

6) How embarrassing for you that you chose a comment thread on a church planters blog to vent your frustration for not being able to land clients for the prices you charge. Maybe you should focus on getting clients, lowering prices, bettering your skills, or even being a nicer person, rather spending your day blasting a guy just trying to make the best of his circumstances.

7) It’s one thing to have a healthy debate about spec work in the design industry, but you jerks picked the wrong place and time.

I commend Zak for allowing open discussion here instead of deleting your stupid comments and blocking your IP from ever commenting here again.

What many of you don’t know is that Zak is a talented designer in his own right. Anyone who has led a group of people for any time at giving people ownership in the process enables and equips them to be better leaders in the the overall process. Maybe that is why he asked for the name ideas in the naming of the church and allowed someone to submit a logo for the contest.

Obviously Zak could have designed the logo himself, payed way too much for an arrogant designer who is on a spec watch to do it or allowed people who are going to be serving the community and God alongside him to have ownership. Bottom line this whole thing is not about him. This is obvious since he is trying to involve people from the start. Who’s to say he won’t incorporate the other designs at a later time?

Like any other offering to God, once you offer it is God’s…not yours. If you are offering trash you have bigger problems. If you see your offering as trash that is an offense to God. See the story of Cain and Able.

IF you ask me there are deeper issues than this contest, namely bitterness, pride and an unwillingness to get over wrongs from the past.

Not that big of deal.

This is why I think Pastors are parasites. Honestly it takes about one minute of thinking to see this is a bad idea IF you aren’t a narcissist and/or aren’t completely self adsorbed.

To me, the solution is simple. Repost this as a “freelance project”, set the price you are willing to pay at $250. For those that are interested, they will send said “humble church planer” their past work where, if good enough, humble church planter will hire the designer.

This is how it works.

Graphic Design ISN’T poetry, music or a painting. Graphic design is for a propose, it solves a problem. It is not art, for arts sake. Do not compare what I do to eat and pay rent to what the amateur poet does in their spare time.

Don’t be a cheap ass, pay your designer

Patrick Fore said it perfectly. I understand needing to save money because you’re a church plant. But people deserve to be paid for their work. This is a trend among churches. To expect something for nothing (or very little) and slap on a “Do it for Jesus” sticker so they feel justified. It’s ok that you have you have a small budget, but hire someone. Don’t encourage spec work. It’s not about pride. It’s damaging the industry that many of us are working very hard in. I don’t think that’s something you want to be a part of.

Alright, I’ll weigh in. First off, I’m a graphic designer and totally opposed to spec work. It’s bad for the industry in general and a waste of my time.

With that said, the pastor doesn’t seem to be asking graphic designers to design the logo. To me it sounds like he’s looking for people that have fun playing around with graphics programs to help him. Although I doubt he’ll get a quality logo this way it is different from asking designers to work for free. The link to logo design principles seems to indicate that someone sending work in for the contest will need to be informed about how to create a logo, so obviously wouldn’t be a professional.

As a designer I sometimes do work for my church and either don’t let them pay me or give the money right back to the church. However, if my church asked me to participate in a design contest I would refuse. I believe that my time is valuable and I’m happy to donate it to the church and to God. But if that time is going to be wasted when they pick another design then why wouldn’t I put the time in somewhere else?

I find it odd that the pastor hasn’t commented here after all of these comments, it would be nice to hear what he’s thinking.

haha all you guys lambasting a few designers for speaking their hearts, and voices their concerns. . . pot this is kettle, you are all black. . .

This is why people like me have a hard time going to church, associate with christians, or even tell others they are christian (which I refuse to consider myself anymore.)

I see a couple of designers, who BTW are talented beyond belief and are successful, make some comments (yes, they were critical, however out of kindness) and then follow those comments with some suggestions.

This garners accusatory language, name calling, and demonizing?

The only arrogance in this thread is in the FOOLS that got offended.

Grow some thicker skin. Learn to SHUT UP and listen.

The only arrogant ones are the ones blasting designers for voicing concerns. You foolish foolish men, your arrogance has blinded you from seeing the hearts of other men.

Criticism is not a bad thing, in fact its not a mean thing, or an un-nice thing. The people that criticized and made comments did so out of love.

They love the art community, and the design community, and they love Zak for wanting to plant a church. The criticized for two reasons. 1. to love their community and show others how to love that community 2. To love Zak and show him that how he is proceeding what garner the best results, and suggested how he could go about getting the best results with out breaking the bank.

However, in your arrogance, narcissism, and self absorption you were not able to see that. FOOLS.

You quote the bible freely to chastise and condemn, this is MANIPULATION, and this is breaking of the commandment “Though Shalt not take the Lord your God’s name in vein”. Quote the bible to uplift, do not quote it to condemn, you have no authority over others who have not submitted to you. Do not assume to take such authority, God has not given it to you.

Learn to disagree, and learn to discuss, and learn to ask questions to learn the hearts of men rather then judge them.

You trite and petty men, braggarts, and charlatans. You brag about giving your talents to God, give your talents to God, and do not boast. Do it in silence, and do it or God, but when you boast you do it for man.

Wicked christians your pride has blinded you from truth, it has blinded you from seeing love, and it has blinded you from learning from others, and about things you know little of.

I may say things in jest a lot, and make jokes. Like I did in previous posts, but I grow tired of the arrogance of the church, and of christians. You do very little for the kingdom of God, very little. You are puffed up and inflated by your own egos and self righteousness. And in your arrogance you hurt those that are lost, and you hurt those that are searching, and in your narcissism and clumsy self delusions you cannot see the lives you scar in order to fill your ego.

as for the contest. Its not the best choice. It demeans and devalues the work. Patrick has the best suggestion.

What would be better for all communities is if humility, real humility, the way it is taught in the Torah, came back to the church. There was no humility in Zak’s approach. I am not condemning the guy, or even saying he is a bad person, I am just saying, this isolated action, was done from a place of insensitivity and arrogance. Thats me, calling a spade a spade.

Jeez, everybody cool your jets!

i think that, although it was long and wordy and a bit harsh in places, Sean, as he usually does, made good points. You just have to get used to his way of expressing himself.

I think, as a member of the Professional Design/Creative Community, that Patrick probably had the best idea. Just post this as a freelance job and you will get a much better result. And you know what us designers might look at and have discussion amongst ourselves abut the $$ being offered, but in the end well pass it by w/o thinking to much about it.

I have a different perspective on this whole thing though because I am in the planning stages of planting a church. After praying over the calling for two years God has recently confirmed that now is the time to get underway with it. As I mentioned I make my living off design(Web Design/Dev) and so I understand the designer side. But I also understand that when you are planting a church you don’t have a lot of money to spend. To that I would say, what’s better spending $250 now for what may or may not be a lasting brand, or spending the $750-$1k to get a logo and brand that will look good, last through time, and be usable in different circumstances. To me of all the church planting costs this is the one that is worth it.

Now, as I am getting my planting plan together and beginning to develop the churches brand, I can assure you that there are GOOD designers I know and am friends with that I could go to and ask for some pro-bono work. I won’t it would be rude and inconsiderate to do so. I will ask a few of them though, after talking with them about what I am doing, what they will charge me. I can almost guarantee that one or two of them will offer to help me do it for free/cheap. Why? Not because I am asking or wanting it free, but because we have relationship.

I have done many things over the years for free for churches, but very rarely have I ever had a client/church call me up and ask me to do something for free. That would be arrogant and self serving. That’s the difference here. Asking vs. Being Offered.

What was done here was asking for free work. How many of you would, if asked by your boss or co-worker, work on a Saturday, just because it’s nice and your “building the company(Kingdom)”

That’s why so many designers don’t like this. At least in my opinion.

looks like designers are like the maytag repairman. sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.

WHOA. 34 comments. You guys are all crazy.

Whenever everyone is done just let me know and I’ll comment…maybe.

I’ll mess with who ever I want.

I’m big in Japan.

aren’t people in japan little?? mini me is big in japan

Because I love you all so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw

I have to agree with Michael here. As a church planter and hack designer, I have chosen to leave our logos and such to professionals, not because is “better” in a commercial sense, but because it allows us to work with people outside of the church to bless them. Now, do I think that Zak meant ill will towards the design community, probably not. But do I think that he and some of the people who are defending him have not taken the proper action of addressing the offended, yes definitely. If I knew nothing about design and just read the statements on the comment section, I would have to side with the design industry. It seems to be nothing but a joke and hate (from a few comments) instead of a genuine disagreement among brothers & sisters in the faith.

Only people who are big in Japan understand that relevance. . .

How christian of you. . .

how christian of you. . .

I’ll just remain big in Japan, eating my chocolate Jesus

Might as well shut the post off and continue the opportunity to bless people for their ideas and continue with your plan. This has become a distraction from reaching the people who are seeking the voice of a savior. Nothing can be said at this point that will be helpful. The post are now mocking the bride of Christ and that is not cool.